Posts by Island Man

27

OK who threw the stink bomb in here?

by Thisismein1972 in

come on a believer, everyone knows it was you so own up to it and teacher will not be cross!.

this is exactly what seems to be happening, a believer runs in drops the stink bomb and runs out again...only to pear around the door when he/she deems it safe to do so.

😅😅😅.

Island Man

I said I've been in the Truth my whole life but didn't research other religions beliefs until a couple weeks ago. The JW makes the most sense to me because of my understanding of the Bible.

The reason why JW beliefs make the most sense to you is, not necessarily because they're true, but because your brain has already been shaped and biased by JW interpretations of scripture and JW reasoning due to your being in "the Truth" your whole life. I suspect that you are simply incapable of making a truly objective and unbiased examination of other beliefs without judging them by your own JW thinking that is deeply ingrained in you. So ultimately you're engaging in a form of circular reasoning (or circular judgment) where you judge all religions based on JW reasoning with the result that, not surprisingly, the JWs end up seeming to you like the one that makes the most sense.

This is not unique to you or JWs, by the way. The same situation applies to persons brought up in other religions. Polytheistic religions like Hinduism never seems to make sense to deeply entrenched monotheists like Muslims, for example. The reason for this is not that monotheism is inherently more logical but only that the Muslim mind has been shaped to think of the divine as being necessarily monotheistic. But no Muslim or monotheist can give a logical argument for why there has to be only one God, without citing their own religious texts and thus exposing their bias of judging religions based on what they've been taught by their own religion, instead of truly looking at the matter in an objective, logical manner.

3

Are JWs as eager to accept voluntary disassociation by minor JWs as they are to baptize them?

by Island Man in

we all know that the organization shamelessly pushes for youth baptism, even encouraging parents to withhold driver's licenses from driving-aged teens unless they get baptized.

i've been asking myself: since they are wiling to accept minor baptisms, are they also willing to accept letters of disassociation signed by young minors?.

i ask this because it seems to me that a signed letter of resignation has a greater "air of legality" to it than baptism, because its a signed document just as most contracts are signed documents.

Island Man

We all know that the organization shamelessly pushes for youth baptism, even encouraging parents to withhold driver's licenses from driving-aged teens unless they get baptized. I've been asking myself: since they are wiling to accept minor baptisms, are they also willing to accept letters of disassociation signed by young minors?

I ask this because it seems to me that a signed letter of resignation has a greater "air of legality" to it than baptism, because its a signed document just as most contracts are signed documents. So I suspect that many more JWs will be inclined to say that minors are not mature enough to disassociate, than would say they're not mature enough to be baptized.

But that position would be hypocritical because disassociation is essentially the equal opposite of baptism so if they think a kid is mature enough to be baptized they should equally accept the kid's decision to disassociate without questioning whether or not he/she is mature enough to take such action.

What do you think would happen if an 11 year old baptized JW handed in a letter of disassociation? Will the elders accept it and respect the kid's decision; or will they discard it and get the parents to "rein him/her in"? What's the youngest age you know of a JW disassociating?

35

1975 statements

by A Believer in

from jw org.

“six thousand years of human existence”.

in 1969 the watchtower magazine in czech began publishing a series of articles based on the book life everlasting—in freedom of the sons of god.

Island Man

A Believer, listen and weep:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf8vhEmlYFU

28

Greetings and would like some advice about a potentially fun idea

by towerwatcher in

jw
friends

hello fellow apostates!

my first post and a long time lurker here.

i would like to thank all of you for the existence of this board as this has been instrumental for me in leaving the place i once knew as "the truth".

Island Man

My advice would be to use the same colors and fonts as the book covers but changing the wording slightly to something funny. For example, instead of "Your Youth getting the best out of it", have the title read: "Your Youth getting the breasts out of it". This would be a funny insinuation about how Watchtower rules suppresses the sexuality of youths.

183

The Great Crowd!

by A Believer in

notice the 144000 can be counted and they all come from israel.. 9 after this i saw, and look!

a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues,*+ standing before the throne and before the lamb, dressed in white robes;+ and there were palm branches in their hands.+ .

this great crowd, no man was able to number, and they come from every nation!

Island Man

"and one breath from his mouth will destroy the wicked."

Jesus Christ! Eww! Use a breath mint, for God's sake!

19

Fight Fire With Fire!

by The Searcher in

wolves use their "loyalty" questions to trap others - "do you believe we're living in the last days/this is god's organization/faithful slave?

" - yet resolutely avoid discussing topics which put their org in a bad light, my "loyalty" question to them would be - "do you accept literature truth over bible truth?

" they will either run or be forced to ask for examples of alleged differences.any other suggestions for "loyalty" questions?.

Island Man

You can also rhetorically ask them what is true loyalty and follow up with an illustration/parable:

"A certain man named Peter had two friends, Mike and John. Whatever the Peter does Mike always supports him and he never ever tells Peter he is wrong even when he is clearly going the wrong way. But John will point out to Peter if he is going wrong because he does not want Peter to get into difficulties with the law. Which of these two men seems to you to be truly loyal to Peter - Mike who always agrees with everything Peter says and does; or John who would bravely offer him corrective advice and criticism when he's going down the wrong path?"

You can use this illustration to say that blindly going along with any and everything the uninspired and imperfect governing body teaches and does, is not true loyalty and that one who is truly loyal will bravely speak out about wrongs and errors so that they are corrected so that the slave does not end up being judged as the evil slave when Jesus returns. But if the slave is silencing all constructive criticism and wants total unconditional loyalty, then how do we know they're aren't already the evil slave?

183

The Great Crowd!

by A Believer in

notice the 144000 can be counted and they all come from israel.. 9 after this i saw, and look!

a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues,*+ standing before the throne and before the lamb, dressed in white robes;+ and there were palm branches in their hands.+ .

this great crowd, no man was able to number, and they come from every nation!

Island Man

It is very possible that the great crowd is the same as the 144,000. John at first, only hears the number that are sealed then it is surprisingly revealed to him that the numbers are not literal as he is then given a view of a great crowd of, not literal Jews, but spiritual Jews of all nations and tribes and tongues. That could be the whole point of that passage in Revelation 7 - Revealing that the Israel of God will not be limited to natural Jews but is open to everyone who washes their robes in the blood of the lamb.

50

Why Finding the One True Religion is Impossible

by Simon in

jws like to think they have found the one true religion.

but like so many other religious people, it's usually the religion they were born into, the only religion they know because it's the first one they found or, at the most, one of two or three (typically the second one after they left their first / born-in faith).. the trouble is, there simply isn't enough time to explore and investigate each and everyone of the many thousands of belief systems, religions and sects around the world.. think of it this way: which is the best neighbourhood to live in where you would be most happy and most successful?

not just in the city or even the country you are in, but the entire world.. how would you ever know?

Island Man

Very well stated. Steve2 also makes a very good point that is often overlooked: A person's impression of what "makes sense" religiously or what the true religion should be like, is heavily biased and shaped by the religious values that the person was brought up with early on.

That's why the JW's criteria of what constitutes true religion are all based on JW interpretation of the bible. Is it any wonder that it always ends up painting their own religion as the only true religion? That's why Muslims will always think that polytheistic religions make no sense - they're judging such religions by the acquired value of monotheism which they learned from Islam.

So without realizing it, religious people are engaged in a kind of circular logic by judging what constitutes true religion by using criteria they learned from their own religion, which means they are implicitly presupposing that religious values learned from their own religion are objectively true, when they should in fact be questioning it. Psychologically, it's a virtually impossible task for a religious person to objectively determine what is the true religion free of any biases acquired from their own religion.

Only someone brought up without religion is in the best position to objectively determine which religion makes the most sense, free of any theological biases implanted in them by a "native" religion.

7

Revelation already fulfilled

by stockholm_Syndrome in

it appears to me revelation was 'fulfilled' 1st century and we are fooling ourselves to think it applies to present times .

let's start with the opening statement:.

a revelation by jesus christ, which god gave him,+ to show his slaves+ the things that must shortly take place.. hmm-- shortly take place ?

Island Man

What I find funny about that book is that the opening statement matches the warning Jesus gave his followers at Luke 21:8. In other words, any student of Luke 21:8 has very good reasons to think that the author of Revelation is one of those false prophets that Jesus warned about. Who knows, maybe Luke 21:8 was emended/inserted by one of those very early christian theologians who didn't like the book of Revelation and wanted to discredit it.

29

Do any of the governing body of JWs exercise their conscience?

by Half banana in

the members of the governing body, by being at the reins of a large corporation, must be confronted with situations which force them to think about the validity of their doctrines.. the australian royal commission hearing must have highlighted for the gb, especially jackson, the rational inconsistency of using an iron age dictum of "two witnesses" in a world which has moved beyond such rough justice.

today we have a scientific approach, we examine forensically, we have psychologists who can tell us about individual's minds and behaviour.

today, children's voices are not ignored.. the first and last resort of jws and their leaders is the doctrine of the "inerrancy of the bible".

Island Man

The indoctrination overpowers their conscience. They tell themselves that they cannot trust their natural, humane conscience because it is imperfect and flawed. So they ignore their natural conscience to obey their "bible-trained" conscience. The rank and file do the same thing when it comes to issues like shunning and let their child die from lack of blood.